Discussion archives: Twin Springs Camp?

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Twin Springs Camp?

Word has it that the spur road down into the abandoned Twin Springs camp has been bermed over. I am rather fond of that camp since it was built in the 30s and Indians used it before that. Can anyone out there verify if this is true? 4610 near Squaw Lakes. Unfortunately there aren't many places to camp up there, being on the rim of the Roaring River canyon.

Last year Lookout Springs was bermed over, but that camp was a ripped up mess. A shame really, just as historic. Must have been what it was like when all the fire lookouts and guard stations were burned to keep them off the books.
Twin Springs Camp?

Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
9/8/09; 5:51:21 PM ¦ by Donovan
Twin Springs is history.
Those of you that like Hambone Springs and High Rock Springs need to get on it before they get dozered and trackhoed. Maybe it's the wilderness thing. I guess you could camp in the road.
I suspect Frazier Turnaround Camp will get the same treatment.
Oh well.
You get what they vote for.

- Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
- 9/9/09; 8:35:43 AM ¦ by Robert Koscik
- What happened? What a waste of a resource that has been in continuous use for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. True, there was often a lot of garbage strewn about, which I dutifully picked up each visit. But beyond that, the site is (was) in excellent condition. It's strange, it really is. How is camping hurting the forest? Especially in a user-maintained site. I'm surprised there wasn't a public comment period like the OHV situation.
  
  I guess we just lost another piece of the vague and ever-vanishing history of the Clackamas District. A shame.
  
  I did some internet poking around, I think this group is responsible:
  
  http://www.clackamasstewardshippartners.org/activity/ohv-damage-repair-road-4610
  
  http://www.clackamasstewardshippartners.org/sites/all/files/Project%20002%20Contract%20Specs_0.pdf
- - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
  - 9/10/09; 8:57:40 AM ¦ by Donovan
  - The bottom line is, being here hurts the forest. Some people just can't seem to come to terms with that.
    
    I suspect that over the next decade or so users will create more places to pull off the road and camp. Or they could fence the road I guess. Like a missle range, and protect the wilderness from us.
    
    The new "collaborative" groups working with the Forest are neat on paper and I thought they were a good idea. But, it is now clear that they can skirt the public interest because they have been "marketed," for lack of a better word, as the public interest.
  - - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
    - 9/10/09; 11:25:02 AM ¦ by Pete Giordano
    - This doesn't seem to me to be a "wilderness" vs. access issue. I think it is in response to illegal OHV destruction. Anywhere up off 4610 that there is a trailhead or camp, seems to be ripe for OHV trashing. I haven't seen what you are talking about Robert, but did they remove the old campsites or just berm off vehicle access to the sites? This is why I'm skeptical about the FS being able to control illegal OHV use in the new proposed LaDee Flats OHV area without an incredible amount of guardrails, trenches and berming. Scared what the area will look like after all that.
    - - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
      - 9/10/09; 1:36:59 PM ¦ by Rob Williams
      - It makes me wonder if they spent part of the money they are talking about to "fix" the area on some full time patrolling, it might help fix that problem and also a host of other issues (dumping, etc). who knows, it might even be cheaper!
        
        Controlling illegal OHV use through berms, trenching, etc is a no-win game. They will figure out a way to get around them sooner or later.
      - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
        
        9/10/09; 10:39:22 PM ¦ by Pete Giordano
        
        Agreed that they will get around it eventually unless they guardrail the whole road. It also makes me wonder if the fix is worse looking than the problem. I guess the trenches and berms look better over time, but still....
        
        I'm convinced that the real solution for many of the problems I struggle with up in the Clackamas area (car theft, illegal camping and human feces, garbage, OHV degradation, shooting, and vandalism) is more law enforcement. I know they can't be everywhere but still.
        
        There have been a couple interesting articles on cleaning up the Molalla corridor with success. I think the last five times I've been up there I've met a BLM law enforcement person or sheriff. Not sure what the difference is.
        
        pete
        
        Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
        
        9/11/09; 7:13:30 AM ¦ by Rob Williams
        
        I agree that law enforcement is the key. Look what has happened at Bagby with just a presence there. Although I don't visit that area, I've heard that what used to be a real problem area is MUCH better now. It is amazing how people clean up their act when the threat of someone else seeing them (or getting a ticket) is present. Right now there really isn't any sort of presence at all. I don't think it would take too much to make a HUGE difference, as long as you couldn't plan on when a ranger/deputy would be coming around. (make patrols random)
        
        Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
        
        9/11/09; 9:40:52 AM ¦ by Pete Giordano
        
        Yes, Bagby was a really nice experience this spring when I was up there. Also, the volunteer group's presence up there helps as well. Part of the problem in the main Clackamas River corridor is that the priorities of law enforcement sometimes are not the same as what I consider important. Whereas I'd like to see them crack down on illegal camping because of the sanitary issues, they see that as a wholesome family activity and are less likely to write tickets. They seem to rather write tickets for parking at trailheads without a forest pass which I don't see as a big deal. So some education of law enforcement would be helpful as well although I'm pretty sure they aren't jazzed about most of the OHV activites in the forest.
        
        pete
        
        Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
        
        9/11/09; 11:22:27 AM ¦ by Rob Williams
        
        That is funny. I'm not sure I've ever seen a deputy in the forest. I've seen a couple of rangers, but only a couple of times. Most often, I see no evidence of any kind of law enforcement or FS presence at all.
        
        I used to buy the forest passes, thinking the money would go to help trails (even though I rarely hike a trail that requires them), but when I found out all the trail maintenance is done by volunteers, I stopped buying them. I wonder where that money DOES go.
        
        Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
        
        9/11/09; 10:41:43 AM ¦ by Kelly Gigliotti
        
        "Controlling illegal OHV use through berms, trenching, etc is a no-win game. They will figure out a way to get around them sooner or later."
        
        Hello.
        
        I've seen this at Fish Lake near Olallie. Looks terrible and all in an effort to control OHV, but not working.
        
        Kelly Gigliotti
- Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
- 9/11/09; 10:43:53 AM ¦ by Kelly Gigliotti
- Scares me, the prediction that Frazier may get dozered. I've gone there for decades and love the area.
  
  Kelly
- - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
  - 9/11/09; 11:25:39 AM ¦ by Rob Williams
  - The trail to Shining Lake (used to be a road) is another good example of trenching and berming that didn't work. When my daughter and I went there several years ago, when we came out, there was a pickup truck at the campground at the top of the hill (right off the old road). They had gone around the berms and trenches and driven down the road, which is still very passable for a vehicle. On the way out, we also passed an ATV on the trail/road. They have since done more trenches and berms, but I'm very confident that people will figure out a way to get around them too.
  - - Re: Twin Springs Camp? (#)
    - 9/17/09; 2:07:23 PM ¦ by Robert Koscik
    - Talked to the Forest Service Estacada office about Twin Springs. Apparently, the reason they closed the camp was due to the garbage situation. Granted, it was often a mess down there, but nothing permanent or damaging. Wrappers and other discard. What I imagine what happened was a knee-jerk reaction to the mess at Lookout Springs (which really was bad), and the upcoming OHV fiasco about to be unleashed upon 4610. Fence out the dogs. I was told that people can still walk down there and camp.
      
      The bitter irony of the situation is I just cleaned up that camp spotlessly a month before the berms and trenches were dug (October 2008). I think what is most frustrating is when decisions like these are made by a select few isolated from the situation, without input from those to be impacted. Such is the case with history deemed unimportant.
      
      There are no immediate plans for other camp closures in the area but this is yet to be verified.
      
      These old camps are very strange. They are nearly forgotten, but at one time provided revenue for the Forest Service as well as a place to familes and friends to gather and explore a very exciting part of the Clackamas District. Not much has been written about them; perhaps they were always under-utilized and odd out of the way places.